Who Should Stay and Who Should Go?

By: Ted | December 4th, 2008

As many readers of the Fiorentina page have been discussing this week, at least when not making photo manipulations of me as Gollum, (thanks, Slakas; I thought we were friends) Fiorentina’s elimination from the Champions League has led to a ton of speculation about potential transfer moves coming January 1st. If you read enough stories in the Italian sports press and on the internet, it would seem as if everyone on the club is being sold and that I’m starting in midfield on Sunday.

I think its fair to say that that will not happen. And, if you trust the transfer rumor-mill like I do, there’s a good chance NONE of these moves reported on now will come to fruition. However, a storyline that has not gone away over the past month has been the idea that the Viola will sell or loan one of their young reserve strikers. One popular rumor has my man Giampaolo Pazzini going to Palermo, Torino, or points elsewhere, while the other has Pablo Osvaldo going to Roma.

So let’s take a big leap for a moment and suppose that these rumors might actually be true and not just manufactured by two bored journalists or a 13-year-old boy posing as a Lazio front office official with special knowledge of the negotiations. My question to you is straightforward; which of these two players would you least like to lose, both for the short term and (if they are sold and not loaned) for the long term.

Here are the parameters of the argument as I see them. Both players are undoubtedly talented. Pazzini is more of a traditional center-forward, has a bit more experience, and has proved he can play at the level of Series A, with his impressive display last season. He’s good in the air and a good poacher. Also, by all accounts, Pazz is a good guy and a good person to have on the team.

On the downside for Pazzini is the fact that he is going through an ice-cold spell and he plays essentially the exact same position as Gila, who is certainly in better form right now and is probably and ultimately a better player. Also, Pazz plays center-forward, obviously a hugely important position, but he strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn’t have much flexibility and can’t really shift positions on the pitch. I also worry a little bit about his emotional makeup; when he’s down he seems to get really down, and probably needs to develop more of a striker’s mentality, the idea that he can miss his first eight shots but still score the winning goal in the 90th minute.

Osvaldo is a little different from Pazzini. He’s younger than Pazz, and I would argue that he has, to use an American sports term, a little more “upside” He can play in different roles in the forward part of the pitch (a crucial bit of skill in the Great Man’s 4-3-3 system) and he has ability that, at moments, can be breathtaking. His bicycle kick that secured a CL spot for the team last season was magnificent, and it is frankly hard to imagine Pazzini duplicating that bit of skill.

On the downside for Osvaldo is the fact that he has less of a track record; we don’t know if those glimpses of magnificence that we see are just glimpses or portents of things to come. There are also rumblings out of Florence that Osvaldo is a bit of a little bitch hasn’t been a good guy while getting so little playing time. This would be a concern since Prandelli runs a tight ship.

So let me throw it to you guys; if we have to lose one, which one does it hurt us less to lose?

I’ll be back soon with the Torino preview.



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    Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 30 comments.
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  • Angharad |  December 4th, 2008 at 1:46 pm

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    Hmmm. I could come up with a lot of technical reasons involving playing ability, formation, and character as to why I choose what I choose, but I’ll be honest and boil it down to the essentials: I like Pazzini. Osvaldo annoys me. Therefore, I’d much rather Pazzo stays.

    PS Always happy to oblige, slakas.

    PPS If you started in midfield on Sunday, Ted, could we be sure you’d mark an opposition player and not Jovetic? I’m sure Prandelli would be concerned about that if he chose to play you. ;)

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  • NickyViola |  December 4th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

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    I say we sell Pazzini and Prandelli and find a coach who can figure out how and where to use Osvaldo.

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  • asem |  December 4th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

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    I know this is kinda off-topic, but who is y’all’s captain?

    Against Udinese, it was Montolivo.
    Against Lyon, it was Sebastian Frey.
    Against Roma, it was Adrian Mutu.

    Is it just a cycle from game-to-game?

    Posted from United States

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  • Angharad |  December 4th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

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    asem — I don’t believe Monto was captain against Udinese, I believe Dainelli was. Dainelli is our normal captain; if he’s out it goes to Jorgensen; if he’s out too (which he has been most of the season) it goes to Frey. Mutu was captain against Roma because it was his something-hundreth Serie A match.

    Nicky — get rid of San Cesare? No player is worth that.

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  • Dumitru |  December 4th, 2008 at 9:41 pm

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    yeah,what you said really shocks me.osvaldo’s problem is not the coach,but the fact that in his normal position is playing mutu,and no way is he going to be favored in that position.mutu is the indisputable starter.

    Posted from United States United States

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  • NickyViola |  December 4th, 2008 at 11:50 pm

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    Prandelli is the club’s problem, though I know you guys have total reverence for the man.

    The fact is that we have beaten *ONE* good team (last season away to Juventus) in his 3 1/2 seasons with us. That win came because he *had* to play guys like Osvaldo and Papa Waigo because of injuries and suspensions, rather than his genius.

    One isn’t enough if we’re ever going to be a great club. Not in 3 1/2 years.

    Posted from United States

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  • Angharad |  December 5th, 2008 at 6:49 am

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    I’d interpret our record the opposite way, Nicky. The fact that we’ve done as well as we have the past three seasons — twice finishing in fourth place, still finishing in a UEFA Cup spot even with a 19 pt deduction — is due to Prandelli; without him we’d be solidly mid-table. We’re not a Big Club, we have a lot of talent but it’s not the kind of talent that would see us naturally competing for the Scudetto year after year.

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  • KJ |  December 5th, 2008 at 8:06 am

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    Please, Please keep Pazzini….

    Seems like Palermo has the opposite problem..We can beat the Milans, Juves, and Romas, but struggle against the Bolognas and Lecces of Serie A.

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  • slakas |  December 5th, 2008 at 10:00 am

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    I say the same thing to any fan that wants to fire their coach when they’ve had respectable if not great results…

    whom will you replace them with that would do better?

    who wants to come to a small market with an old stadium and ungrateful fans like you?

    Posted from United States United States

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  • slakas |  December 5th, 2008 at 12:24 pm

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    sorry, that was a bit harsh
    hadnt had my coffee

    but the question remains
    who comes in and does better

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Angharad |  December 5th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

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    Possibly a bit harsh, slakas, but you got the message across. ;) The point is, we’re not a “great team”, and we’re not going to be, either. If that’s what you want, you should run off and support Inter or Juve or Barcelona, although of course a lot of us will think less of you if you do. We’re a mid-table team that aspires to greatness, and a fourth or fifth place finish indicates a job well done. I think, through careful development of talent and the occasional well-placed purchase by the Della Valles, we can get better, but we’re not going to be regular Scudetto challengers. You need history, a lot of money, and luck to be that, and of those, the only one we have is luck. And honestly, I’m pretty sure our “luck” is actually a combination of Corvino and Prandelli, so the last thing we want is to be getting rid of one of them.

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  • fra paolo |  December 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

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    Since Pazzini has been getting playing time and Osvaldo hasn’t, I’d guess that the Pazzini rumour is more likely to be true. And I think it’s the one I’d prefer to be true.

    Posted from United States

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  • slakas |  December 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

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    this story has some potential for amusement:

    Anonymous Italian Gigolo Claims To Have Serie A Clients
    La Repubblica reported that tonight at 11.55pm on Italian private television station La7, a Serie C player will tell all about his double life as a footballer and gigolo, revealing that he has famous Serie A players as clients.

    http://www.goal.com/en/news/723/serie-a/2008/12/05/997919/anonymous-italian-gigolo-claims-to-have-serie-a-clients

    Posted from United States United States

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  • Angharad |  December 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pm

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    *sighs* I really wish that there wasn’t such a pervasive homophobic element in sport. It’s shameful that anyone in the 21st century has to live a lie to keep their job.

    That said, it’s certain fun to speculate as to who. (Cassano? Maybe he’s making up for something with all those women. Or by talking about all those women, at any rate.)

    Posted from United States United States

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  • slakas |  December 5th, 2008 at 4:25 pm

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    Kaka
    lol

    Posted from United States United States

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  • slakas |  December 5th, 2008 at 4:26 pm

  • Nolan |  December 5th, 2008 at 4:52 pm

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    I would say Osvaldo…I really like Pazzini and wish him the best but he’s had a lot of chances and keeps failing to make the most of them; while Osvaldo has also been inconsistent he’s done more with less chances.

    Posted from Canada Canada

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  • NickyViola |  December 5th, 2008 at 7:46 pm

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    Delio Rossi would do better. Mazzarri would do better. Terim would do better. Really I could name dozens who would do better. We’ll never get better if we cannot beat good teams and we CANNOT beat good teams. That is not my opinion. That is a fact.

    Napoli does not have anywhere close to the talent and depth that we have, for example, so is Reja some tactical genius? I don’t think of Reja as a tactical genius but he’s a better tactician than Prandelli. There is no doubt in my mind.

    If thinking that my favorite team’s coach is sub-standard just because he seems like a pretty good guy or because his wife died makes me ungrateful then, whatever. I guess that thinking that Vryzas was sub-standard makes me ungrateful, too, because he never complained about warming the bench. I was as happy as anyone when we got Prandelli but he’s taken us as far as he can.

    Posted from United States

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  • Maggie |  December 5th, 2008 at 8:33 pm

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    “…because his wife died…” NickyViola your pitiful comments and obvious lack of team spirit are not welcomed by true Fiorentina fans!

    Posted from Canada Canada

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  • Nnahoj |  December 5th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

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    NickyViola

    “If thinking that my favorite team’s coach is sub-standard just because he seems like a pretty good guy or because his wife died makes me ungrateful then, whatever.”

    That was the most douchy sentence I have ever read on these boards. Congratulations.

    Personally, I would keep both. To bench both of them and then to ship them out just seems a bit ungrateful to me, given the important roles they both had last season. Gila, Mutu, Pazzini and Osvaldo could all be rotated to keep them all happy and on form. I’m actually surprised that Prandelli has been so reluctant to give the latter 2 playing time.

    I think Fiorentina’s struggles, especially in the UCL, has been due to some of their poor acquisitions. Surely they could have done better than Commotto, Zauri and Vargas for their back-line?

    And if anybody doesn’t want Prandelli at Fiorentina, I’m sure we’ll be glad to have him over at Vinovo - just make sure Corvino, Montolivo and Kuzmanovic comes with him.

    Posted from United States

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  • NickyViola |  December 5th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

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    What’s ‘douchy’ about it? You guys are obviously basing your approval of the guy on something other than solid results because, as I said, we have one solid result during his tenure.

    Prandelli does not equal Fiorentina. I will be a Fiorentina fan long after Prandelli has re-found his Gobbi roots.

    I have told people on another forum that most Fiorentina fans are drinking the Prandelli Kool-Aid (oops… Another douchy comment?) but they have scoffed at my claim. Turns out that, again, I am right.

    Posted from United States

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  • Nnahoj |  December 5th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

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    Nicky, Results do not lie.

    The season before Prandelli took over, Fiorentina only escaped relegation due to better their head-to-head record with Bologna and Parma. Since Prandelli has been in charge, Fiorentina has finished 4th in 2005-06, 5th (despite having a 19 point penalty, without it they would have finished 3rd) in 2006-07, and 4th in 2007-08. How a fan of Fiorentina could scoff at such consistency is beyond me. You cannot base the result of an entire season on the results against a few teams. Consistency is what counts. A team can win a league title without beating the big teams. The reason that Fiorentina has not yet gone from a club on the fringes of the “big 3″ to making it (at least) a “big 4″ is more due to the modest financial resources at their disposal than to any supposed lack of tactical nous by Prandelli. Had Fiorentina had the spending power of Inter, Milan or Juve and had been finishing 4th/5th then you could probably blame Prandelli.

    But you are right in saying that Prandelli has taken Fiorentina as far as he can. He could only take them further with funds akin to that available to Mourinho, Ranieri etc.

    Posted from United States

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  • Johonna |  December 6th, 2008 at 1:13 am

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    A team does not have to consistently beat “big teams” to be a great team. What it has to do is utilize 100% of it’s resources and talent. I think Fiorentina do that.

    They make the most out of every transfer dollar. They make the most out of the relatively young players on the squad… All they lack is a little experience.

    It is true, they may not, right now, have the mentality to compete in both Serie A and the Champions League (even so called “great teams” have that problem), but hey, at least you got to try. That is more than Napoli or AC Milan can say. Next year, the squad will be more prepared.

    Getting rid of strikers always scares me a bit. They are a fragile lot. You just never know when you are going to need an extra.

    Posted from United States United States

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  • r€nato |  December 6th, 2008 at 8:16 am

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    hi! I just discovered this site and I will be returning often. I am a half-Florentine American, my mom’s cousin lives walking distance from Franchi and he is a HUGE fan. I once went to a game with him and he was chewing his fingernails off and chain-smoking. It wasn’t even that important of a game!

    We also had lampredotto before the game… it was a cold winter night… anyway I miss bella Firenze terribly all the time and I look forward to following Fiorentina here. Alè Alè Alè!

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  • fra paolo |  December 6th, 2008 at 9:34 am

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    Beating big teams will not win you championships. The way to a top-of-the-table position is to beat all of the teams you ought to beat - Siena, Cagliari, Torino, Sampdoria, Roma - to beat more of the middling teams than you lose or draw to - Atalanta, Udinese, Catania - and to avoid losses against teams as strong or better than you - Inter, Juventus, Milan.

    So the Siena, Cagliari and Roma results were pretty bad, all things considered. Even draws against such teams are barely tolerable. With all nine points, guess which team is in second place?

    If I was to criticise Prandelli, it would be about those. He’s got to win tomorrow and at least get the draw against Sampdoria on the 21st, and reverse this run of bad results away to teams we ought to beat, or else I won’t blame anyone for suggesting in the Christmas break he might be part of the problem.

    Posted from United States

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